Fw: [Worship] All them counterpoints!

["Gary and Renee Thomas" <thomasg@interquest.de>]

As a member of a Church of God in Christ ministry fully equipped with
everything from an hammond organ to a tambourine.... Praise is comely for
the upright.  No argument/counter there.
We are supposed to praise God with all of our might.

I still hold that the means and methods we use must be birthed by the Spirit
of God and led of the Spirit of God.

All forms of worship and praise should pass the spirit and truth test.
Thats all I am saying.

Does anyone agree that at times we incorporate things into our services just
because we saw someone else do it? Or because we want to keep up with the
latest things? What might be 'in the spirit' for one maybe a fad or mimick
for another.

For example, David danced out of his clothes.  I believe he danced in the
spirit before the Lord.  Now, should we all start dancing out of our clothes
because David did?  Well, if the HOLY SPIRIT leads me to then 'yes.' An
emphatic yes at that.  But, not because David did it, but because the Holy
Spirit moved upon me that way.

The person who first blew the whistle in the sanctuary maybe have felt that
unction from the Holy Spirit  (first, I heard of the whistle in church was
at Rod Parsley's church--- not saying that is where it started, but that is
just the first place I heard it) ---  but, can we all say that the Holy
Spirit led us to go out and buy whistles?

All I am saying is that what we incorporate into our worship services should
be born of the Spirit of God in us and not just because we saw a prominent
television ministry incorporate it into their ministry.

All praise and worship is not acceptable....ask Cain.  Cain tried to offer
God a sacrifice in his own way, but the Lord rejected it  and said, 'If thou
doest well, will not thou be accepted?'  It must be in spirit and truth.

'Nuff said
Renee Thomas

-----Original Message-----
From: gabrieli gabrieli <gabrieli@hotmail.com>
To: worship@praise.net <worship@praise.net>
Date: Thursday, February 04, 1999 3:01 AM
Subject: [Worship] All them counterpoints!


>Dear Sisteren and Brethren--
>
>   I've enjoyed reading the posts and exchanges preciptated by my series
>on multicultural worship. It's amazing the variety and ranges of
>opinions expressed, and I'd like to comment on some of them before
>I continue with more posts planned for the list. (NEVER give a choir
>director a computer and modem.....) So, LIVE, from Irvington, New
>Jersey, is THE MOTHER OF ALL COUNTERPOINTS!---
>
>1. Oddly enough, I'd like to start with the whistles! I have no
>    objections to whistles, and I first heard them associated with
>    reggae music, NOT nightclubs. By the way, believers should not
>    always "believe" that what is done in a nightclub is automatically
>    ORIGINATED by the club! A good case in point is the use of
>    electric guitars and drums--black Pentecostal churches were using
>    these DECADES before the rest of American Christendom "caught up"
>    with "praise and worship music." Most of the so-called "Motown"
>    sound was directly STOLEN, BORROWED OR OTHERWISE COPIED WHOLESALE
>    from black churches and the Church of God in Christ. This occured
>    because gospel singers simply "went secular", exchanging "get
>    up off your seat and praise Him" for "get up offa that thing,
>    and dance till you feel better" (a la James Brown)!
>       In fact, the original funk sound is actually a slowed-down
>    version of black Pentecostal praise music, and much of the bass
>    work is church music, again, slowed down in tempo, but retaining
>    the original structure. Funk started in GOD'S HOUSE, and even
>    most funk artists readily acknowledge their debt to black gospel
>    music! So much for "importing the world"...
>       The same goes for the use of tamborines in rock and soul
>    groups--when I was a kid growing up in the fifties and sixties,
>    NOBODY, but NOBODY-- other than black, white and Latino
>    Pentecostals-- were using them other than in symphony orchestras
>    for some impressionistic tone poems. I remember hearing white
>    rock singers actually brag about how they "went to the revival
>    meeting" and borrowed the tamborines, and imitated the people
>    lifting their hands and shouting.
>       Much of the so-called "hip-hop culture" BORROWS black church
>    movements, gestures and even some dance patterns! (They need to
>    borrow Jesus, too...)We've been "raising the roof" for umpteen
>    years, so do NOT assume that the world is not busy ripping off
>    the church! I've seen old church mothers in their eighties
>    "raising the roof" in praise to God, but because the white secular
>    media didn't consider black Christian worship worth documenting
>    back in 1962, folks suddenly "discovered" a "raise the roof"
>    gesture because some hip-hop promoter filmed a video for MTV...!
>       I can tell you from experience, that NO SECULAR CONCERT, CLUB,
>    PARTY or PERFORMANCE can surpass ANYTHING done by Christians
>    praising God with "all their might!" That's why the devil works
>    so hard to counterfeit praise and can only IMITATE what the
>    saints of God do--and it's a pale, pitiful imitation at that.
>    No one parties like the Christians, and most church folks I am
>    around can outdance, outsing, outshout, and get down LONGER than
>    any "club", "rock concert" or "rapfest"--and many times lives
>    are radically changed by the HOLY GHOST PARTY because the emphasis
>    is on GOD, and what HE did or IS DOING, and the devil is NOT
>    PERMITTED TO STEAL OUR JOY! And you can STILL drive the car when
>    you leave the service, because the strongest drink you had was
>    the "new wine"! People do NOT get liberated from bondages at
>    the nightclub, but all kinds of wonderful things can happen when
>    we release ourselves, body, soul and spirt, to the worship of
>    the Triune God! "Joy unspeakable and full of glory" can't be
>    found without Jesus, and we don't require sound effects, light
>    shows, dry ice smoke or even sequinned clothing to praise His
>    name and shout the victory.* Clubs and secular promoters "have to"
>    add gimmicks, because they don't have the Light of the world,
>    nor know the Father of All Pyrotechnics--Yahweh, the "consuming
>    fire."
>         We can get down with Brother Bach or Brother Gabrieli,
>    or Rev. Shirley Caesar or Sister Tramaine Hawkins, and the gospel
>    proclaimed in any language can deliver the life-changing word of
>    God. So much for the "creativity" of clubs...
>         What's being said about "whistles" today--as a fad, worldly,
>    whatever--was ALSO SAID ABOUT THE ORGAN. It took CENTURIES for
>    organs to be accepted into European Christian worship, because
>    they were associated with TAVERNS. Read the history of the pipe
>    organ, and you'd be amazed!
>         As for the little whistle--it's just one more untuned
>    wind instrument in the praise mix. I've heard them at my
>    roommate's church, used during the song "Holy Ghost Party"--
>    and this pastor grew up in a traditional white Pentecostal
>    church,yet! When all's been said and done--Christian folks
>    have ALL the fun!
>         You can also hear the whistle used on the album High Praises
>    by Ron Kenoly, who uses them in the reggae song "Jesus is the
>    Winnah, Mon."
>
>Give me a whistle and I'll blow for HIS GLORY--
>
>Charity Dell
>gabrieli@hotmail.com
>
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