Re: [Worship] Public domain? ("May the Mind of Christ")

[rakemp <rakemp@charter.net>]

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Dear Bruce and everyone,

Yes! what you say about renewal is true and thank you for pointing that 
out,  which only goes to show that the ways of copyright are diverse and 
myterious indeed!

Here is another wrinkle.  How do you find out if the copyright was 
renewed on a particular publication?  You can write to the copyright 
office requesting the copyright information and if you send in something 
like $30, they will send that information to your heirs. (in other 
words, this way is very slow)  or you can contact a professional 
copyright company and for about three times as much, they will send you 
some very limited information.  A thorough report on a copyright will 
run into hundreds of dollars.  Not exactly the kind of thing churches 
can afford to do on a regular basis.  Copyrights can also be researched 
now online, though it appears that this will tell you what is 
copyrighted, but will not tell you what is not copyrighted.  And of 
course, it doens't cover the British copyright office. 

I checked out "May the Mind..." at the online US copyright site, and as 
expected, there was nothing for the original song, but there are several 
derivative (sp?) works that list Kate Wilkinson as the author of 
"preexisting" lyrics, which would lead me to believe that the words have 
passed into the public domain.

In Christ,
Rob K
Free worship music
http://homepage.mac.com/jjana
Free confirmation music
http://maxpages.com/jjana

Bruce Johnson wrote:

>
>I do, however, have a minor (though I hope useful) quibble about your
>application in this case.    You say,
>
>	> If the words were first published in 1925, they would still 
>	> be under  copyright, thanks to changes in the copyright law. 
>
>That's not necessarily so, as I stated, but failed to explain, in my 
>original post.  
>
>As you yourself state, the extension to 75 years applies to 
>"copyrights that were subsisting on January 1, 1978. . ."   (leaving 
>aside the "restored copyrights" provision which does not apply in a 
>case like this);  it applies to the "RENEWAL term".      
>An example, from the legislation:
>	"Any copyright still in its renewal term at the time
>	that the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act becomes effective
>	shall have a copyright term of 95 years from the date copyright
>	was originally secured."
>
>IOW, if a copyright was NOT "in renewal" at the beginning of 1978, the 
>copyright is NOT automatically extended.    
>
>Application to this particular case.   According to the cyberhymnal 
>link you provide, it appears that Kate Wilkinson wrote the lyrics 
>BEFORE 1925, but that they were first PUBLISHED in 1925.   Under the 
>copyright law of that time the copyright did NOT exist (was not 
>"originally secured") prior to that publication, since no copyright 
>was registered before that time.
>  
>	As you wrote:
>	> Under the law in effect before 1978, copyright was secured
>	> either on the date a work was published with a copyright 
>	> notice or on the date of registration if the work was registered 
>	> in unpublished form. 
>
>Thus, assuming the copyright WAS registered when the work was first 
>published in 1925, it would be POSSIBLE for the words to still be 
>under copyright. 
>
>BUT there is NO indication of any RENEWAL of copyright (and renewal is 
>not automatic).  Thus the words were NOT under copyright in 1978.    
>Result: they were then, and are now, in the public domain.
>
>As for the tune associated with the lyrics (though the original 
>question was not concerned with this), it was likewise not "in 
>renewal" in 1978 and would be in the public domain.
>
>The key point is this:   you may not be able to determine whether 
>something is under copyright simply by looking at the original date  
>-- some songs first copyrighted in 1925 (or later) are still under 
>copyright, some are not.      You have to check for each song.
>
>
>---------------
>
>BRITISH COPYRIGHT!
>
>But there's another wrinkle or two here. . . 
>
>So far we've been basing everything on *U.S* copyright law.    But the 
>piece we are discussing was written & published in England.    
>
>If I understand this properly, British law has for some time 
>recognized the duration of copyright for a literary or dramatic work 
>as extending 70 years after the author's death.  
>(http://www.intellectual-property.gov.uk/std/faq/copyright/how_long.ht
>m)  Since Kate Wilkinson died in 1928, that would take us to 1998.
>
>But that still doesn't work.   Every hymnbook I've seen this song in 
>is pre-1998, and none includes any mention of copyright, not even 
>those that are most fastidious about such things.     And there is no 
>evidence of the author or original publisher staking a claim.    It 
>appears that the song has been considered in the public domain for 
>some time, if not from the beginning.   
>
>So.. what it going on?     Is it possible for an author to simply 
>relinquish copyright to a work and 'release' it into the public 
>domain?   (Perhaps our British friends can help us here.)  Is that 
>what happened here?
>
>---------------
>
>In the end, I go back to my original advice.  Check a competent 
>source. Most hymnbooks are very careful about how they use and post 
>notices for copyrighted materials (as is cyberhymnal), and can be 
>relied on to answer these questions.  Thus, hymnbooks list copyright 
>notices for "Great is Thy Faithfulness" but none for "May the Mind..." 
>
>Bruce Johnson
>www.worshipmap.com
>
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