Re: [Worship] Re: Urgent song request

[Pacileo <mt.pacileo@verizon.net>]

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I don't read that in the Bible as the role of the pastor.

It irks me when people think that we must deify pastors.

Somewhere and somehow the role of pastor became the personification of all 
the spiritual gifts rolled into one - shepherd, administrator, teacher - I 
don't read that in the Bible anywhere

The pastor is one of the many spiritual gifts - (and not meaning to 
under-estimate it's worth) it's not even in the list in 1 Cor 12 - let 
alone one of the greater gifts - in Paul's listing of the spiritual 
gifts-  it is only listed in Eph. I don't mean to diminish the role of 
pastor, but we need to see it more in it's biblical framework - rather than 
what we have done to it as a culture.

1 Cor 12:27-31
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28 
And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, 
third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of 
healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and 
those speaking in different kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all 
prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of 
healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But eagerly desire 
the greater gifts.  NIV

Eph 4:
11 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be 
evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12 to prepare God's 
people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 
until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of 
God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of 
Christ. NIV

Rom 12:6-8
6 We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man's gift 
is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith. 7 If it is 
serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; 8 if it is 
encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of 
others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern 
diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully. NIV

In Timothy and Titus Paul seems to teach that it is the elders who direct 
the affairs of the church and do much what we associate with the role of 
the pastor

Titus 1:5 The reason I left you in Crete was that you might straighten out 
what was left unfinished and appoint elders in every town, as I directed 
you NIV    - it doesn't say form pastoral search committess. There doesn't 
seem to be many indications that we  find our spiritual leaders any place 
but inside our own flock

When Paul speaks of authority - it seems to be usually in reference to holy 
living -in teaching sound doctrine and generally not putting up with any 
silliness that will lead the flock astray - no where does it say to give 
orders to have others do what he wants them to.

1 Peter 5:1-4
1 To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder, a witness of 
Christ's sufferings and one who also will share in the glory to be 
revealed: 2 Be shepherds of God's flock that is under your care, serving as 
overseers-not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants 
you to be; not greedy for money, but eager to serve; 3 not lording it over 
those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. 4 And when the 
Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never 
fade away. NIV

We operate from the power of love. If any Christian (not just the pastor) 
asks us to do something that will edify the body, we should try to do it to 
the best of our ability - but then again if we can't do it for some 
legitimate reason love understands that as well.

I do wonder about the songs selected as well

Mark





At 04:29 PM 9/11/2003, CherishAgape wrote:

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>It doesn't matter what songs were requested when. We are to be submitted
>to the "shepherd of the flock" as the authority over us. Our pastors
>need our faithfulness and obedience. According to the Word there is no
>authority over us that God has not put there. Our worship team seldom
>has advanced notice of the song list. We practice on Thursday night for
>the weekend services but there are always changes. Wednesday nights we
>find out the song list fifteen minutes before service and if a song is
>requested by the pastor out of the blue we pull and play it without
>mumbling under our breath. It is worthy to note that none of us is a
>paid player. We are all volunteers, serving the King of kings. I have
>served the church as a percussionist for the last 15 years. It is a
>privilege to lead the congregation into God's Presence. May we all have
>that revelation. Cheri
>
>
>  Michael Wrote: " But in the absence of any of the above, that takes
>guts (on the part of the  pastor).  Not one, nor two, but three songs
>requested just hours before the  service.  And calling someone at work
>to take care of it to boot!  At this  stage of the game, methinks I
>would have told the pastor to find them  himself.  Or do without."
>
>Clare responded " Woe Michael!... I am not a US Citizen but even I know
>that today is a day when songs which exalt your NATION should be sung
>!Therefore all WL's should have these songs in the repertoire. - this is
>an instance when we encourage both ourselves and our nation and lift up
>our nation to God"
>
>Michael says:
>
>Come on, folks.  I said nothing about WHICH songs were selected, but
>rather the late hour in which the request for three songs was extended
>from the pastor.  I know what day tomorrow is and the significance of
>these songs are not lost on me.  I made no comment about them (some
>people have responded to me privately with similar comments, so this is
>not just about Clare's thoughts).
>
>However, the fact that tomorrow is September 11 has been known for quite
>some time.  If these songs were selected with that date in mind (a safe
>assumption), then the lateness of the request is even more suspect.  It
>doesn't take Hercule Pierot to see what is going on here.
>
>But hey, please let me know where I'm wrong.  I don't mind.  But at the
>same time, please make it relevant to what I wrote.  I don't know how to
>respond to criticisms of issues I did not bring up in the first place.
>
>TTFN!
>
>Michael
>
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